Wednesday, October 15, 2008

For the record...

Mark Waid needs to grow up. It's time for a lot of comic book professionals to grow up, actually.

11 comments:

Dick Hyacinth said...

FYI: The original post was a good bit more vulgar, but it just wasn't sitting right with me.

Superlime said...

I don't think either party came off well in that exchange but FOR THE RECORD, I think, to this point, Mark Waid's contribution to the comics industry -- even if just as one of the best editors THIS writer ever had -- trump Noah Berlatsky's. Thus far. Berlatsky might make a come from behind win, but he needs to work on his identification powers.

Dick Hyacinth said...

I can't remember--is Superlime one of Heidi M's online handles? I'm pretty sure it is, based on some Googling.

In any event, I don't see what Mark Waid's contributions to comics or comics culture (FOR THE RECORD, I think he's written some good comics, and I've said so here a few times) has to do with the ridiculous way he's conducting himself in public.

Joshua said...

I completely agree. It’s disgusting when fanboys or girls descend on people for having different opinions than them. It just reminds me of schoolyard bullying, it’s vicious and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth whenever I see it.

I've enjoyed some of Waid's work before but seeing how immature he is has put me off reading anything he has written for life (yes I know that sounds over dramatic). Even Brian Wood’s comment there has left me on shaky ground about buying the rest of DMZ.

I respect Noah for keeping calm and replying with more wit than they could ever throw at him. Tis truly an embarrassing day to be a comics fan when grown adults behave like vindictive little children.

Superlime said...

Yes this is Heidi, for some reason Blogger always comes up as Superlime.

You people definitely live in a different world than I do. I'm not saying that Mark is a saint, or behaving in a particularly civil manner, but Dick, you first comment came up in my RSS feed, and the irony of your having to post something more civil in a post calling for more civility speaks for itself.

For the record no one is a sacred cow, and on the internet everyone can defend themselves. However, taking pot shots at professionals (in any industry) just because they show up to comment is a common internet respone. And yes I've seen the opposite of obsequious groveling as well, and guess what -- both are childish.

Holding up Noah as some example of grown up behavior is, in my mind, ludicrous. I really don't care if he doesn't like Risso, Johnson or Hugo Pratt. But he made a bush league mistake, and instead of just owning up to it did backflips to explain why making a mistake like that didn't matter. And then he insulted people on top of it. You can not like Mark Waid's writing -- I don't like most of it -- but insults are not criticism.

I make plenty of mistakes on a daily basis. I make them because I work fast and without the degree of accuracy I would like. When I make a mistake I own up to it, I don't say facts don't matter because who cares, grammar is for losers, and so on.

So yes I guess Paul O'Brien is right. Internet arguing is for losers, and we should all feel like the Boston Red Sox.

Dick Hyacinth said...

Geez, you got up my hopes that the Rays had won....

I don't see how saying Mark Waid is behaving like a 3-year-old (hardly new, BTW) is the same as absolving Noah Berlatsky. I thought his last few comments (both at your blog and at his own) were out of line as well, and I probably would have said something to the effect if I had read them at the time I had originally posted.

And it wasn't so much a call for civility (that's probably a waste of time at this point) as a call for intelligence. I agree that Noah's review was poorly conceived, and I disagree with his opinion to the extent that I care about Risso (which is not much). But I was much more taken by the number of professionals that were acting overly sensitive to sloppy but essentially honest criticism. Even among this group, Waid stood out for being exceptionally stupid, especially for someone who's the e-i-c of a comics publisher which doesn't have the best PR track record in the first place.

Anonymous said...

"Mark Waid's contribution to the comics industry ... trump Noah Berlatsky's" sounds like "OJ Simpson's contribution to the entertainment industry trump Ron Goldman's."

Not that Waid's an unrepentant double-murderer, but that's a specious argument.

Todd C. Murry said...

How about "Mark Waid's contribution to the comics industry ... trumps Noah Berlatsky's" sounds like Courtney Love's contribution to the entertainment industry trumps Perez Hilton's."

Dick Hyacinth said...

I kind of like a couple of Hole songs--not enough to own any of their records, but enough to not mind playing whatever song it is that's on one of the Guitar Hero games. I guess I'd rate Mark Waid a bit higher, probably around the level of the Guess Who: a couple of good songs, but you probably don't want to listen to the whole box set.

As long as this thread's still active--I've got to say, I'm kind of disappointed that Noah has gone into full-on troll criticism. I would bet good money that he's absolutely right about that Waid JLA thing he reviewed, but he's clearly not operating completely in good faith anymore.

Anonymous said...

"And then he insulted people on top of it. You can not like Mark Waid's writing -- I don't like most of it -- but insults are not criticism. "

Allowing yourself to be painted into a work and then ripping it to shreds publicly and accusing its creators of ruining the future of comics by brining it into existence, that's pretty fucking insulting.

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