tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7715773315155138002.post4898883541499999531..comments2024-03-06T01:12:50.627-08:00Comments on Dick Hyacinth's One-stop Hyphen Shop: You can help improve comics and get something free at the same timeDick Hyacinth's Ghosthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11199236541341734429noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7715773315155138002.post-38897474680542458992012-03-19T23:43:28.783-07:002012-03-19T23:43:28.783-07:00This topic was really educational and nicely writt...This topic was really educational and nicely written.Louis Vuitton Outlethttp://www.louis-vuitton-2012.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7715773315155138002.post-46783561157833958232007-03-27T04:00:00.000-07:002007-03-27T04:00:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Mr. Ricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03221098688529569487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7715773315155138002.post-67245051591101493712007-03-26T15:00:00.000-07:002007-03-26T15:00:00.000-07:00I was going to try to explain the "joke" here, but...I was going to try to explain the "joke" here, but I figure I'll just enjoy it and watch any continued developments. Of course, I could be wrong and Dick is serious. Then the joke would be on me...<BR/><BR/>And Spencer, Dick might have been a bit snarky, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't implicating you in any genital trauma. He was just curious if Warren Ellis was really posting gross photos as reported.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13867868039166531163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7715773315155138002.post-43652115867630779442007-03-26T07:58:00.000-07:002007-03-26T07:58:00.000-07:00Joe,The only part I didn't take at face value was ...Joe,<BR/><BR/>The only part I didn't take at face value was the part about the established creators wanting to put out their own versions of established characters simply because the mentioned creators would never do anything of the sort. The whole thing itself seemed a little wonky, but when Dick followed up with "Wake up, Rip Van Winkle!" and "Jack into the now!" with a sense of vitrol, so I assumed he was serious. <BR/><BR/>And Dick, apparently I miss read your remark about genital trauma. The whole "is that true BTW?" came off as some slight, indicating that I was the one suffering from such affliction. (Don't worry, I don't.) Then again, I was a bit snippy myself so I apologize.<BR/><BR/>I just think that if fan versions of established characters really hurt sales drastically, the Big Two would just pay the people making those fan versions to work on the real ones. However, people who love spider-man would be stoked on the potentially much better fan version, yet they would still buy the comic. <BR/><BR/>Simply put, let's agree to disagree.Spencer Carnagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11850308449842913005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7715773315155138002.post-74437637893209810882007-03-24T12:00:00.000-07:002007-03-24T12:00:00.000-07:00You create a list in which you claim that every de...You create a list in which you claim that every decade has an identity except the 1970s, then when others provide arguments and evidence that the 1970s are as distinctive as any other decade, you suddenly side with those who say that "breaking down comics (or anything else, really) by decade isn't the most effective compartmentalization." But then you immediately contradict yourself, claiming that the "70s, at least for mainstream comics, definitely seem distinct from the 60s and 80s." Be nice if you'd make up your mind...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7715773315155138002.post-12805302855674313222007-03-23T19:54:00.000-07:002007-03-23T19:54:00.000-07:00Whoa, did Spencer totally take this at face value?...Whoa, did Spencer totally take this at face value? Even I thought he was smarter than that.Mr. Ricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03221098688529569487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7715773315155138002.post-44970231766298944492007-03-23T19:35:00.000-07:002007-03-23T19:35:00.000-07:00On the other hand, though, a creator wouldn't have...On the other hand, though, a creator wouldn't have to worry about a character or characters to become "something marketable." All the obscure or killed off characters fans demand to see? New characters not succeeding? Wouldn't be a problem, as fans or creators could just whip up something and not worry about sales, or characters being pushed out by stale icons and derivatives.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7715773315155138002.post-47278596899456500682007-03-23T19:05:00.000-07:002007-03-23T19:05:00.000-07:00Incidentally, isn't this 'punk rock comics ethos',...<I>Incidentally, isn't this 'punk rock comics ethos', comics for comics' sake the driving force behind most webcomics being put out today? There are probably what, a dozen webcomics artists actually making a living off of their sites?</I><BR/><BR/>Yes, and when one of those becomes even mildly successful, you suddenly see them having thier webcomic published into trade collection and all kinds of other licensing is done, to cash-in from the webcomic's success.<BR/><BR/>It just further proves my (and Ron Marz's) point: You only do it for free, until you or the property becomes something marketable. Then, it is all about the payday.<BR/><BR/>There's nothing wrong with that, though. It's the basic foundation of the American Dream. And I certainly can't fault someone for cashing in on their ideas and talent.James Meeleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15125466138669301618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7715773315155138002.post-70386126396012097372007-03-23T19:00:00.000-07:002007-03-23T19:00:00.000-07:00As I see it, the blame lies with their (theoretica...<I>As I see it, the blame lies with their (theoretical) unwillingness to work for free.</I><BR/><BR/>As I said, Dick, until you can find the way to circumvent the need for money to take care of a human's needs (i.e eating, shelter, clothing, medical, providing for their family, ect.) don't expect that "unwillingness" to change.<BR/><BR/>Art and creativity are great, but the HUMAN equasion and its needs will trump those every time.<BR/><BR/><I>I can't believe you guys are wanting me defend my incredible plan.</I><BR/><BR/>I can only speak for me, but that's not what I want.<BR/><BR/>Your theory is all well and good, Dick. It's a nice DREAM. But there are realities to this world we live in that make it unworkable at this time.<BR/><BR/>There may truly be "starving artists" in the world, but that's usually not from thier willingness to be in that situation. And it seems more than just a bit naive to expect all creators to willing accept that station. At least, it is in the world we (and they) have to live in today.<BR/><BR/>Or, to put it another way for you: We're in the 21st century, huh? Well, meet the NEW century, same as the OLD one.<BR/><BR/>Don't give up the dream. But don't expect some radical shift to it becoming reality any time soon, either.James Meeleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15125466138669301618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7715773315155138002.post-69600930710778004212007-03-23T18:34:00.000-07:002007-03-23T18:34:00.000-07:00Mr. Murry, I've got to include you as one of Dick'...Mr. Murry, I've got to include you as one of Dick's History Buddies. Thanks for your kind words.Dick Hyacinth's Ghosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11199236541341734429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7715773315155138002.post-8879353941896805762007-03-23T18:33:00.000-07:002007-03-23T18:33:00.000-07:00Incidentally, isn't this 'punk rock comics ethos',...Incidentally, isn't this 'punk rock comics ethos', comics for comics' sake the driving force behind most webcomics being put out today? There are probably what, a dozen webcomics artists actually making a living off of their sites?<BR/><BR/>Maybe I'm severely under-judging how profitable webcomics are, but it seems like something that's mostly done for fun and art or because you want to make terrible jokes about video games.Hugh Stewarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18311504903583872112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7715773315155138002.post-69419600924245974942007-03-23T18:12:00.000-07:002007-03-23T18:12:00.000-07:00mc hugh: There is, and that's what I was thinking ...mc hugh: There is, and that's what I was thinking with dick's post. Doujinshi and the cons that sell them let fans, amateurs, and pros to publish stuff outside the regular industry. I know established creators like Yoshitoshi ABe and Ken Akamatsu still publish stuff for the doujinshi market, and there are stories about how artists are discovered at these conventions.<BR/><BR/>And there is fan fiction made, although the snag is there is a lot that's porn...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7715773315155138002.post-32839983393147112542007-03-23T17:45:00.000-07:002007-03-23T17:45:00.000-07:00It's tmurry (no a) thank you very much. And as lon...It's tmurry (no a) thank you very much. And as long as I'm correcting you, I think it's Bagge's Hulk that hasn't been released, not the Spider-Man. Interestingly I agreed with alot of your post, and I was mostly responding to the TCJ board responses, and the responses elsewhere (like the Beat) in which people were (weird as it sounds) defending the 70's like the decade had some kind of definative existance like your grandmother or a piece of toast (hm, that reminds me, I'm hungry). It was all just to concrete to me. <BR/><BR/>Despite what I said (I reserve the right to be inconsistent) I don't really believe in the cyclic thin either, at least in a predicatable fashion, but there have been some critical masses thet came up, broke through, and saw the next X number of years being exploited into the dust. Years beginning with 197 (oddly, the years of the exploitation movie) just seemed to lack a predominant big exploited movement (some littler ones with horror and kung-fu and whatnot).<BR/><BR/>Bottom line - I was just reacting to inappropriately applied concrete thinking. And yeah, just one post there... I don't read the boards regulary, but I always read Journalista, and everyone has to have a first post, right? BTW - I love the blog - best new one in some time. Keep it up!Todd C. Murryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00660028880926115772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7715773315155138002.post-53362492757124019572007-03-23T17:24:00.000-07:002007-03-23T17:24:00.000-07:00You need to read the comments to yesterday's post,...You need to read the comments to yesterday's post, Mr. Carnage. It will all make more sense then (or maybe not, who am I to say?). As it stands, I'm a little unclear on why you think this is a personal attack. Unless those are your genitals in the (possibly apocryphal) photos that the anonymous commenter mentioned yesterday. I mean, if that's the case, then more power to you, I guess.<BR/><BR/>I can't believe you guys are wanting me defend my incredible plan. I mean, if you're satisfied with Ron Marz and Geoff Johns, then I'm sorry that you won't be able to read the incredible, groundbreaking work they would surely produce if not for illegal downloading. As I see it, the blame lies with their (theoretical) unwillingness to work for free. However, I'm sure that the future Seths and Joe Saccos of the world will sacrifice proper nutrition and reasonable shelter just so they provide us with new tales of Kyle Rayner and the Kingdom Come Starman. I, for one, can't wait.Dick Hyacinth's Ghosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11199236541341734429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7715773315155138002.post-77878301929446344742007-03-23T17:19:00.000-07:002007-03-23T17:19:00.000-07:00Isn't there a huge market in Japan for this sort o...Isn't there a huge market in Japan for this sort of 'fan-fiction'? Like entire conventions where fans and semi-pros meet up to swap bootleg punk rock versions of the mainstream hits?Hugh Stewarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18311504903583872112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7715773315155138002.post-22980377234304967942007-03-23T16:50:00.000-07:002007-03-23T16:50:00.000-07:00Spoken like someone who's sleeping through the 21s...<I>Spoken like someone who's sleeping through the 21st century. Hey Rip Van Winkle, this shit's going down whether you like it or not. </I><BR/><BR/>Wake me up when all the really good indie creators start working on JSA for free!<BR/><BR/><I>If Dan Slott and whoever it is that writes Manhunter are really dedicated to the characters, they can still produce this work under my plan.</I><BR/><BR/>They can and probably will do just that, but not so they can write about Batman and Spider-man without getting paid. Any and all efforts to do so will be towards getting themselves into a position where they get paid to do it. <BR/><BR/>Fan generated content will never be able to compete with whatever Marvel or DC are putting out because there's no money in working for free. Especially on someone else's character. I would love to see of the potential comics you propose, but I am not stupid enough to believe that is going to become some kind of norm that will kill Marvel comics. <BR/><BR/><B>Loss of revenue from illegally downloaded comics that people don't like enough to spend money on(Civil War, anyone?) but will download for free just so they can know what happens to their favorite wallcrawler/detective/man of steel/earth's mightiest heroes?</B> That's a problem. <BR/><BR/>Your misguided optimism for a super hero book created by a Fantagraphic's Alumni? THAT is fan fiction right there.<BR/><BR/><I>You need to jack into the now, dude. I'm sure Warren Ellis would agree, assuming he's not too busy posting photos of intentional genitalia trauma (is that true, BTW?).</I><BR/><BR/>Hey, look at that. All it takes for you to show some teeth is me being someone who ISN'T gonna hook you up over at Comics Should Be Good. Needs a little work, but you're on the right track.Spencer Carnagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11850308449842913005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7715773315155138002.post-8905521834334506452007-03-23T16:41:00.000-07:002007-03-23T16:41:00.000-07:00We just need creative types willing to work for fr...<I>We just need creative types willing to work for free in order to support it.</I><BR/><BR/>Actually, Dick, this point you make right here is why your theory will never happen.<BR/><BR/>See, something Ron Marz once told mepretty much flies in the face of this. He said: "As a creator, when you are looking for exposure, you'd be willing to work for free just to get it. Once you have it, though, you won't do a damn thing without getting paid for it."<BR/><BR/>That's pretty much the gospel truth of things, Dick. As long as the creator in question felt they had no marketability, they'd gladly do their version of Spider-Man, or whatever, for free. Once they saw they had a following and a chance to cahs-in, you could kiss all that good-bye. Which basically means, that even if your theory did happen, we wouldn't be getting the best superhero comics we want. We'd be getting fan-fiction try-outs of them, that were of a quality less than what we probably get now. And the minute they accomplished something more than that, said creator would be off to cash-in on their skills. We'd lose it from the free stuff, because, as much as we like to believe otherwise, people are just not alturistic enough to do for free, what they know they can get paid for.<BR/><BR/>I have no doubt that Dan Slott and many other writers are dedicated to the characters they write, but getting paid is, sadly, a good part (if not the main one) of why they are. If you take that away, you take away a lot of reasons for creators to care. <BR/><BR/>Until the need to make money to survive in the world is done away with, don't expect "creation for creation's sake" to be the main thrust for any creator worth their salt. It's an easy thing to claim to support, when you don't have anything to lose by not supporting it. That's why fans will always "care" more this way.James Meeleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15125466138669301618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7715773315155138002.post-8238695530217208402007-03-23T16:05:00.000-07:002007-03-23T16:05:00.000-07:00Spoken like someone who's sleeping through the 21s...Spoken like someone who's sleeping through the 21st century. Hey Rip Van Winkle, this shit's going down whether you like it or not. If Dan Slott and whoever it is that writes Manhunter are really dedicated to the characters, they can still produce this work under my plan. Under the status quo, it's up to Levitz/Didio/Buckley/Quesada. You need to jack into the now, dude. I'm sure Warren Ellis would agree, assuming he's not too busy posting photos of intentional genitalia trauma (is that true, BTW?).<BR/><BR/>Also: "bollocks?" Are you British now?Dick Hyacinth's Ghosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11199236541341734429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7715773315155138002.post-71984704763363005552007-03-23T15:24:00.000-07:002007-03-23T15:24:00.000-07:00Your theory on downloading comics and etc: bolloc...Your theory on downloading comics and etc: bollocks. The inevitable dwindling of the Marvel and DC's comic lines will only result in less Spiderman, X-men and Avenger books and probably kill off cult titles such as She-Hulk, Manhunter and whatever other titles that sell poorly but are critically acclaimed. As for fan generated content, I doubt any creator that is half-way decent is willing to waste their time on doing revenue-less Spider-man story when the opportunities to make money off of their own creations are so plentiful these days. <BR/><BR/>And the solitications debuted at the top of the page. I think the lack of outrage comes from the lack of a Fanboy Rampage. There is no discernible gathering place for us to get together and snark.Spencer Carnagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11850308449842913005noreply@blogger.com